The following is a transcript of the live radio talk show with Anandmurti Gurumaa Ji, hosted by Anita Rani on BBC Asian Network online radio, UK.

Q: How you became so deeply involved in Spirituality?

Gurumaa: A Rose is born like a rose; rose doesn’t do anything to be a rose. So same thing over here; didn’t do anything, nothing even tuckered, no particular incident. I was just like that and sitting with my friends even in the class sixth and still talking about meditation.

Q: As a child, did you feel different to people around you?

Gurumaa: I had a very normal childhood. As usual, the sports,
games, singing and dancing; everything was as it has to be. But I was fortunate enough to enjoy the company of sages at that point of time. Amidst all this I completed my formal education as the sages whom I was in interaction with encouraged me to do so. Since they lacked it, it was on their wish it became easy for me to understand the value of formal education. It was an addition while I was in pursuit of spiritual growth, enjoying the childhood at the same time. Thus completed my post graduation the credit for which vests with the sages around me.

So, initially it was not like that of a crusade for me. It was out of sheer love and my inclination towards it and people just hovered around me turning into gatherings of millions.

Q: What were you doing? Were you talking or philosophizing?

Gurumaa: No, I don’t believe in philosophizing, I believe in living; I don’t believe in just thinking; I believe not in knowledge but in knowing and living in that knowing.

If you are fragrant with good perfume, people are ought to ask you, what are you carrying? It seems good. So, it’s something like that. You are carrying the fragrance of the divine love and spiritual aura around and people get attracted to you. It’s not that you go and give an advertisement or put your face on a big billboard. You are just there with people around you and you start sharing with them, enjoying and celebrating. As simple as that.

Q: You are making it sound very straight forward…

Gurumaa: It is! It is like that! My whole job is to simplify those things which have been presented in a very complex form as if pseudo religious propagators didn’t want people to get involved into this very deeply. I say Life is simple, God is simple, why complicate it?

So, I am taking away all the rituals. I am taking away all those regimens which people find boring and meaningless; especially the educated, the young ones have so many questions about the kind of rituals which are being practiced and I bring the whole focus on living, not on just listening or reading or practicing those dead things which are not carrying any meaning for today’s man.

Q: Were you bought up within a specific religion?

Gurumaa: My family traces its origin in Sikhism but not on fundamental lines. Rather, they had a very cosmopolitan lifestyle. So, we were open to all the other aspects of life. To say this does not mean, however that what I am today is the result of my parenthood. That’s for sure! They gave me the body; they gave me the right environment where I was given the freedom to do what I wanted to do. They never provided obstacles and delivered a non conducive environment for the individual growth, which families tend to create normally.

Q: Did they realize that you are different?

Gurumaa: They realized when I was in the seventh standard. My Principal called my parents and said that something has happened to your daughter. Actually, I was in a deep trance and it appeared to them as if I have gone sick. My Mother knew what I was going through, so she said its ok you can send her home but she is not sick.

Q: When you say you were deep in a trance, what does it mean?

Gurumaa: Meditative and very contemplative. And a stage comes when mind goes absolutely thoughtless and when you are in that state your inner consciousness is in a full bloom. At that time there is a kind of detachment happening to the body, thus to the environment.

Q: Since you have been brought up in the eastern world known for its inclination towards enlightenment, what is stored there for the one born in the western world for whom the enlightenment does not exist at all?

Gurumaa: If people are truly religious, they do have the clue because one witnesses the fair amount of share of the western world in spirituality. For example: Pythagoras, back in Greece time; Heralkidets; Jesus, the greatest mystic. Mary Magalia, another mystic; She is not an ordinary woman who’s just known to be a prostitute; but she was a great mystic herself. Jesus brought out that mysticism which was hidden in her. Same goes for all the Christian mystics, all the Jewish, the Haseeds; the beautiful people just like any seer or sage of Upanishads or Vedic time.

Q: Does any body have the ability to be enlightened?

Gurumaa: Every one is born to be enlightened! Actually we have this treasure within us; the only thing is that the dust on it has to be removed. It is not that you have to attain it, it is that you have it; you just have to know it that you have it.

Q: How do we do that…through religion?

Gurumaa: No! Through being one with yourself. Religion just lays down the methodologies one can opt for, but the basic thing is coming face to face with your own real self, with your own real being. Now, we don’t have to construct that being, we don’t have to invent that being; it’s right there. The only thing is that we have lost touch with our own self. We are more body obsessed, sensual; pleasure possessed and obsessed people who have forgotten what we truly are.

The Sage, the Master, the Guru through his/her knowledge helps us to know our real self. The self with which we identify is a false self, an illusionary self. It is more of the identification with the body and the conditioning which has been given by the society & the family. We just know about our self which has been told by others.

Q: How do we get back in touch with our self? Is it by having a Guru?

Gurumaa: Guru is just a friend who can point the finger towards the moon, but you have to tread this journey yourself. No one can do this journey for you; not even the greatest master can do.
Even if Lord Shiva comes live, face to face you and says, Ok I am your Guru; yet Shiva can only give us the path, the maps but we have to do all the working ourself.

Guru is the one who will motivate you, inspire you and would not let you go back to sleep; will help you wake up. But the final responsibility is upon the aspirant who wishes to be in that state. That’s the reason I am using lot of music, lot of poetry, lot of literature in my work so that all kinds of people who are at different levels can come to me & listen and then contemplate on what I am doing, and then wish to be in that state about which I am applauding and singing all the glories.

Q: Mind is such a powerful force which keeps going outside into the pleasures of the world. It’s not easy to go inside to still the mind. So, how do we do it?

Gurumaa: Yes, Mind is the biggest enemy which man is carrying within him but the mind is also our biggest friend. The need to be in company of an enlightened person is only for a sole objective that the Master guides you how to train your mind in a way that this mind becomes your friend and not foe.

In ignorance, there are dark shadows; child gets scared of all these dark shadows and begins to think that there are ghosts in my room. But the mother brings the light and in the light all the ghosts are gone. Child doesn’t have to struggle; but with this light, with this illumination, all ghosts just go away. Similarly, the Guru works like a mother, brings the light of knowledge to the mind; the mind which was having the ghosts of lust, greed, prejudice, hatred. With this illumination of the mind we get a clear insight, and we come to know how this mind is to be used and then you become your own master.

Now, mind is the master, not you! You are just a slave of the mind. That’s the reason mind says go angry, you are angry; mind says go in the lust, you fall in lust; mind says go and do the rat race, and you are part of the rat race.

Q: Aren’t these natural reactions? If somebody upsets me, I get angry; I am in a rat race because I want to succeed.

Gurumaa: Here we go wrong. To use the right capacity of the mind we need to get the right training and if we don’t, we are at the level of animal.
There are 3 levels: one is the level of animal, the other level of human, and the third level is of divine. We might look as a human being but still the human being has three levels. Most of the people are born as an animal, we are very instinctive, and we just listen to our body. Body says hungry: we eat; body says thirsty: we drink. Those people who are listening to the instinctive signs & symbols, and the language of the body are in the category of being just an animal although they are in human body.

The second level is the level of being truly human. Again & again we are telling our children, be a human; they are a human being yet we say: do humane things, be humane, have humane feelings. This means, it needs lot of effort to come at the level of human being. It’s always hard to ascend but it’s always easy to fall down; gravity helps you to fall down easily. We are born with this animal instinct, so it’s very very easy to listen to your instincts and act upon that. But who is a human being? Who is not just listening to the instincts of the body; its not that the body will trigger out various emotions and the body will begin to react on that. When I say, be a human then you don’t react, you act. There’s a big difference.

Q: Life is very stressful these days. Can you give us any advice on how to get out of stress?

Gurumaa: Please meditate! Please learn to meditate. It’s a very simple to do; you just need a right teacher who can guide you with an appropriate method and 25 minutes to 30 minutes per day is enough to come out of any kind of stress rather to be in such a healthy state of mind where stress doesn’t happen to you.

You need to learn how to live life. Life has been bestowed upon us by the nature, by God, by higher energies but God doesn’t give the knowledge to live our life. This is something which we have to gain and that’s the reason we are different from all other animal and bird species. Bird is born like a bird, will live like a bird, and will die like a bird. But human being is born like a human being, with great spiritual heights can attain such a state that this human becomes God. And If this person doesn’t become God, can just be human, or it can happen in a very negative way that can fall out to be animal.

Q: How to meditate, if one hasn’t been brought up with any particular religion?

Gurumaa: Meditation has nothing to do with the religion. You can be an absolute non-believer and yet can be a meditative person. For example, I use music and those who understand music or love music, they would agree to this: When you are totally into listening to the music, you go beyond your body, the state of mind is so relaxed and so calm as if you are floating; no pain, no stress.

Today, in lot of places, it has already been experimented that music can heal people from their sickness: body sickness, mind sickness. For example: A painter may not be a believer of God but when a painter paints, is absolutely lost or should I say found in that art; doesn’t have any kind of stress which he need to manage, there’s no frustration. Every child should be taught to be creative because if you have creativity in you, you are much more better person, a very sensitive, a very thoughtful, a very thinking kind of being you become; and any thinking, sensitive, creative person will never be in loss of love or satisfaction.

Q: When you talk about meditation, does it mean something that brings you in calm?

Gurumaa: Just being calm is not meditation; just being concentrated is not meditation; just being focused too is not meditation. Meditation is far more than all these three things. It has the combination of these things but we can not single out that it is just concentration, or calmness, or focus. It has the ingredients of all these things, but it is more about heightened awareness.

Q: Lots of people turn to Astrologers, Tarots, in the time of need; because they are searching for answers. What is your opinion about this?

Gurumaa: When you are unsatisfied, when you are in a fix and you don’t know where your life is leading, you are always going to go out to those people in whom you have faith or your belief says that they can provide you some answers. Man is looking for consolation and is always ready to justify whatever consolation he gets. Astrologers, Tarot readers, Crystal ball readers, Aura readers, when you go to these people you will never come out with a negative tone; they will always give you some bright point. They say, this is there in the future, wait for that; or if there is some obstacle you do this and it will be removed. This is where their commercial benefit comes. They charge lot of fees for they can remove their obstacles and good time will come sooner.

I say that if you know how to live your life then you have to accept that life is going to give you fair share of misery and happiness. This is a fundamental Truth. We need to accept that misery will be there, happiness will be there. If there is a day, there will be a night and if there is a night there will be a day. If you are in misery, just have little patience, use your wisdom, do whatever you can to make situations or environment around you, easy to live into. But you need to accept that misery is part of life. So if it is there, it’s much easy to accept it and then just wait for this night to go and the day will definitely come.